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#1 ChooseLove

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:24 PM

Greetings all,

 

I will use this post to start sharing my own experience.  I received a book from Amazon.com from Joel and Kathy and thought this forum may be another great resource to help me through the difficult time I am going through.  Fortunately I do have many good friends, family and spiritual leaders to turn to who have helped me and continue to help me.  I am a lifelong Christian with my faith set firmly in Christ - he is my all in all and I know God already has the ultimate victory.  

 

Currently where I stand is that my wife of 8+ years, being together since September 2003, wants an amicable divorce.  We have two small children (4 and 7) and I do not want the divorce but this is coming out of two different affairs in the last two years, both of which continued during counseling (one ending in March this year and the other starting in July). I continue to go to counseling myself, reading the scriptures, seeking Godly counsel.  She has stopped counseling months ago (while in the second affair) and does not see any hope for the marriage.

 

My heart has been breaking since I discovered the second affair over 2 months ago which she refuses to give up.  It started on Facebook and she has met the other man once, also supposedly a Christian.  She and I were drawn together in our pursuit of God and love for family and friends.  That desire has pretty much left her and she no longer has any friends, only her mother.  I on the other hand being an extrovert and lifelong believer have many who are praying intently for us - that the Lord would restore our marriage and that which blinds my wife (selfishness) be removed and that she have a contrite heart and repent.  I forgave her within the first week of the affair - not condoning what she did but calling her back into relationship with Jesus Christ.  She has refused and continued to be very private.

 

I have been very open with all I have talked about seeking earnestly all that I have contributed to the state of our marriage - selfish ambition, pornography, plainly not making my wife the priority she should be in my life for nearly the first 6 1/2 years of our marriage.  I have been reading lots of marriage books, listening to podcasts and other resources from the likes of Family Life Today and again seeking out Godly Christians in my life who will speak truth in love.  

 

I hate that I am headed for a divorce, particularly that I was married once before (shortly 2000-2002) and told my wife I was all in.  I welcome your input/insights as this appears to be a great forum for that.  I will continue to share more, but I wanted to get something out there, particularly as I deal with the details of the divorce.  We have not spoken to the children about it yet either so that is weighing heavily on me. Please continue to pray I am vigilant, doing in the best interest of my children, taking care of myself emotionally, mentally and physically so that I can make clear decisions on how best to proceed.  God bless you all and thank you for reading today. 



#2 Looney_Tunes

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 08:57 PM

Hi! Welcome to the ministry!

 

This jumped out at me ~
 

 I on the other hand being an extrovert and lifelong believer have many who are praying intently for us - that the Lord would restore our marriage and that which blinds my wife (selfishness) be removed and that she have a contrite heart and repent.

 

 

I think your assessment of the situation is off.

 

First of all, I want to be sure you understand that no one in this ministry condones your wife's affair. In the end, she is responsible for her behavior, and we are called to be godly people no matter how we feel.

 

But women don't have affairs because they are selfish. Men have affairs because they are selfish.

 

As little girls, we all believe in happily ever after. Your wife did, too. You came along and swept her off her feet, and she gladly said I do. She envisioned a long, happy life with you and fully intended to love you for the rest of her days.

 

Then she met the man she actually married. And over the years, your abuse and neglect left her starved for love. When women are starved for love, they act out in various ways. Some eat. Some shop. Some get wrapped up in their children.

 

And if a predatory guy comes around at just the right moment of vulnerability, some have affairs.

 

I don't condone what she did, but I understand why she did it. Back in the really bad days of my marriage, I very well may have done it too. I was so afraid of doing it that I stopped wearing makeup and nice clothes and made sure I went nowhere without my kids. When a woman's heart is hurting that badly, her pain sometimes overrides her common sense.

 

The affair partner came along when she was extremely vulnerable, and her need for love and attention was greater than her ability to stop herself. When the first guy showed himself as the predator he was, she broke it off. Trouble was, she still had those needs, and you didn't know how to meet them. Enter partner number 2.

 

Stop thinking of her as selfish, and start seeing the broken, hurting girl behind her behavior.

 

not condoning what she did but calling her back into relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

 

That's not your job. Your job is to love her, period.

 

selfish ambition, pornography, plainly not making my wife the priority she should be in my life for nearly the first 6 1/2 years of our marriage.

 

 

Get specific. What did you do, or not do? You need to understand the pain you have caused before you can move forward.
 

resources from the likes of Family Life Today and again seeking out Godly Christians in my life who will speak truth in love.

 

 

Be cautious here. Family Life contradicts a lot of what we teach. So do many other godly Christians. Most people have been taught wrongly concerning God's design for marriage - that's why their teaching doesn't work - and won't understand what you're doing if you choose to follow our advice. Obviously it is your choice who you take counsel from, but you can't keep one foot on each side of the fence. It is not going to help you if we tell you one thing, and then you go to someone else who tells you the opposite. Make a choice and commit.

 

I will tell you that our teaching has restored a lot of marriages, but I can't make you any promises. You wife has free will, and she can choose to leave the marriage no matter what you do. The only thing I can promise is that if you follow our teaching, you will be closer to Christ than you've ever been, and that's not a bad place to be. :)



#3 ChooseLove

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 07:18 PM

Thanks for your words.  Yes she is broken and hurting indeed.  As my Pastor told me we will fill those needs either in a healthy or unhealthy way.  I do love her and told her I would always love her, pursuing her in spite of myself.  I love the Lord with all my heart and I agree I want to be closer to Christ and die to self.  I seek the Lord earnestly that I can be the best father and husband I can be.  

 

As my wife does not have any long tern/life long friends I believe she has looked to me to fill her up emotionally, as she is a stay at home Mom who home schools are little ones.  She has no real connections with any other people in her life outside of her Mom.  Her parents divorced when she was 5 and her father remarried having 3 other daughters and her Mom went from man to man until she married and divorced again about 8 years ago.  Her Mom is her closest confidant and she is not a committed Christian, being more spiritual.  My wife has repeatedly told me she is lonely and unhappy at least due in part to both of us not being emotionally available/truthful and working on our friendship/shared interests.

 

My wife is generally pretty negative and judgmental/legalistic and does not do the hard work to maintain friendships.  Fortunately I have many life long friends, most who share faith in the Lord.  I have a great many folks praying for us and our family and I thank God for that.

 

As for me I have "dropped" my wife, in part to some of the ADHD issues I have.  I also realize that through counseling I have not received my love language of words of affirmation and was able to get that through work so I pursued that more rather than my wife early on in our marriage.  I have been learning to die to self more and more.  It has gotten easier over time, for example I essentially gave up my DJ business about a year ago to spend more time with her and the family and I have been thankful for that. Those are some of the issues I have been working on.  It has been freeing to talk about them with others and get in the light - no place for Satan to go.  He will not take me down too!



#4 4evrHZdtr3

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 09:10 PM

Hi! and welcome...

i just want to underline what Looney said at the end...

 

"The only thing I can promise is that if you follow our teaching, you will be closer to Christ than you've ever been, and that's not a bad place to be. :)

 

That's what this ministry is all about.. true Christ-likeness!

 

If you learn to listen, validate, bless, serve and cherish your wife- consistently.. daily... and always.. you will become hard to resist and have the best chance of reaching your wife. The things that impress, inspire and attract women are not (generally) the same things that work for men. You will have to move into her world. See things from her perspective.



#5 ChooseLove

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:01 AM

Thank you Helper.  I truly appreciate that.  

 

Below are some notes that have rung true to me about the affair:

 

We have also supported couples where the woman has had the affair, where healing was unfortunately not achieved. In many of these situations the husband genuinely loved his wife, and was willing to forgive, change and do whatever it took to create a fulfilling marriage. Sometimes the wife refused to give up her contact with her affair partner, which eventually forced the divorce or separation.
 
When the wife has had the affair it is often more difficult to get her to give up her affair and to be willing to put effort into the marriage. She has already checked out. 
 
The cheating wife has often gone to her husband, pre-affair, time and again wanting to “talk” about their relationship, to tell him how she’s hurting, to ask for what she needs, but for whatever reasons she has not been able to get through to him, so she has given up trying and shut down.
 
Some of the factors we find common when the wife has been unfaithful include:
 
•   She didn’t feel heard in the marriage.
 

•   She didn’t feel understood.
 

•   She felt the heart connection was missing.
 

•   She lost herself in the marriage giving too much, and losing a sense of her own identity.
 
When the wife cheats she is more likely to have had a strong emotional connection to the other man.


#6 ChooseLove

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:30 AM

I wanted to follow-up to my last post.  I read Dobson's Love Must Be Tough - http://www.amazon.co...e must be tough and that has been helpful to me.  I have been reading A LOT.

 

Right now I am struggling however how to deal with my wife in that she is still living in the house, home schooling our kids, essentially living the good life while asking for a divorce.  I have a tremendous about of love and grace to give, but I know she is not in a place to receive it right now.  I forgave her of the affair within the first week (October 6).  I recently asked her what she wanted me to do once it was known - she said she needed space - like me moving out and not acting like the NSA.  I don't think that is right of her.  She needs help too and she has isolated herself from all others including losing her long time friend and maid of honor at our wedding. I have really tried to limit my "talks" with her as she indicated they were painful and only pushed her away farther.  This has been such a painful 2+ months, but I have been praying earnestly and talking to many other family members and friends, pastors and professional counselor. 

 

One of her big issues currently is the NUMBER of people of I have talked with.  Most folks I have shared with I have told to pray for me and our marriage and Nikki as well. Still there are many that know an affair is involved as well.  I am working on my own issues of reassurance - talking so much to so many to get validation - validation that really comes from Christ - he has made me a new creation.  I continue to go to counseling twice a week to work on my own issues.  My wife stopped going on 10/7/13 and no longer seeks any professional help.  She still goes to church with me and the kids, but you can tell the Word is not piercing her heart.  Satan does have a grip on her and she is blinded.  At this point I see that the pending divorce may be the way to wake her from this path she is headed.  

 

Thank you again for your insights.  I welcome your rebuke - I am teachable and want to learn how to be the best husband and father I can me.  God bless you all.  To God be the glory!



#7 Looney_Tunes

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 04:21 AM

I have a tremendous about of love and grace to give, but I know she is not in a place to receive it right now.

 

 I don't think that is right of her.

 

She needs help too and she has isolated herself

 

I have really tried to limit my "talks" with her

 

My wife stopped going on 10/7/13 and no longer seeks any professional help.

 

you can tell the Word is not piercing her heart.  Satan does have a grip on her and she is blinded.

 

the pending divorce may be the way to wake her from this path she is headed.

 

 

Wow. I can feel the judgemental attitude dripping off the keyboard. Your "talks?" Lectures, maybe?

 

I recently asked her what she wanted me to do once it was known - she said she needed space - like me moving out and not acting like the NSA.

 

 

So why haven't you done this?

 

Most folks I have shared with I have told to pray for me and our marriage and Nikki as well. Still there are many that know an affair is involved as well.

 

 

So you have blabbed far and wide that your wife is in an affair. You decorated it in Christian-ese, but the bottom line is that the whole world pretty much knows, because people don't keep that kind of thing to themselves. They wrap it up as a "prayer request" and make sure the word gets out. How do you think that makes your wife feel?

 

Stop trying to fix her. Love her. Love her right where she's at, affair and all. Give her what she needs. That's the only way you have a prayer of winning her back.



#8 4evrHZdtr3

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:06 AM

Again.. I would like to underline what Looney is saying...

 

Your wife sounds like she feels ashamed of everyone knowing. if I were her, i would be isolating and retreating also... Additionally, the Word in church will be received when we feel safe.. If we feel judged or rejected, we harden up in self-defense. Who at your church has called her up and said: What can I do to be your friend? to help you? Anybody?

 

And yes, if your wife asked you to move out, you should have done that immediately... yes, that doesn't make sense. yes it doesn't seem like the correct stand. God will defend His own person and righteousness.. All you have to do is present His love. As a woman I know this to be true. God can reach your wife when she is shown unconditional love.



#9 momaw

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:09 AM

Looney you are challenging me. I welcome that and I appreciate your engagement. Thank you.

What do you think she needs? It appears she does not want to face any of the consequences of her actions. She wants a divorce she has made that clear. By letting her go, having the freedom to do as she pleases? Are we not to hold each accountable when we sin, particularly in a case like this where it is like an addiction? From what I have read and seen online affairs are becoming more prevalent and very difficult to break.

#10 MaryJane

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:04 AM

Have you finished reading Joel and Kathy's two books yet?  PLEASE do!  You need to understand WHY your wife has had an affair or two.  You can pray for her all you like and have all your friends praying for hours, but if YOU do not become the husband your wife needs, nothing will change.  Not at this stage in the game.

 

If you humble yourself, obey the Holy Spirit inspired words of the apostle Paul by learning how to really and truly LOVE your wife as Christ loved the church, THEN you will start to see changes -- if it is not too late for your wife. 

 

Your wife was given free will by God, same as you were.  It appears she is trying to come out from under your control and exercise it a bit.

 

I'm curious to know about the 5 years previous to marrying your wife.  Was your relationship platonic?  I truly hope so, since you are a lifelong Christian with your faith set firmly in Christ. 

 

Was your wife also a lifelong Christian when you met her?

 

Have you represented Christ to her from day one?

 

I would like a little more information.
 



#11 Looney_Tunes

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:11 AM

I'm glad I'm challenging you. That's my job.

She needs to be loved by her husband. Period.

Yes, we all need to be held accountable, but that is not your responsibility. Only in a totally healed marriage can you even think about pointing out where she's off track, and even then you need to tread very carefully. It will always be better coming from another woman than from you. At this point, don't even consider it.

You are coming across as being better than and more spiritual than she is, because she had an affair and you didn't. If I can feel that all the way in PA through a computer screen, I can only imagine what she is picking up.

I still have not heard any specifics on how you abused her, but I promise that your sins are not somehow less than hers. Own your own stuff and leave hers alone.

What do you think it means to love your wife?

Did you want to change your username? It's a little confusing to have what looks like 2 different people talking. I can change it if you like . . . unless, of course, you have multiple personality disorder and there really are 2 of you! :P

#12 ChooseLove

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:31 PM

Thank you again for the quick responses Looney_Tunes and MaryJane.  Sorry for the confusion on the usernames.  I accidentally registered twice.  I am going with ChoosingLove. Also I just purchased the two books and DVD today.
 
I have been meditating a lot on what has been shared thus far.  God has the ultimate victory and I need to be obedient working on my own issues.  You are right I can't fix her or call her into accountability when I have my own issues that are hurting her.  She is deeply wounded. Today's verse from Psalm 143:10 really spoke to me -Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground.  Another good quote that came to me yesterday was "Have patience with all things, but chiefly have patience with yourself. Do not lose courage in considering your own imperfections but instantly set about remedying them—every day begin the task anew."—Saint Francis de Sales
 
Looney_Tunes you are right that my talks have come across judgmental even if that is not my intention, even when we pray together as a family (mainly for my son and daughter 4 and 7) during our morning devotions I really have to be guarded in how I read/present the Word.
 
So I wanted to dig into some of the issues/questions raised by the last couple of posts. Here are some issues regarding abuse/neglect from my end of things
  1. Pornography - I have struggled with this for some time always thinking I had overcome it to fall back again.  I thought I was clear but she found it on my computer AFTER we were married and that deeply hurt her trust that I had not come clean about it.  Today I am much healthier in that area actively seeking accountability and able to disclose when I am tempted.
  2. Not listening/hearing her/Selfish pursuits - Early on in our marriage as the only one working I pursued work and career development intensely.  My wife was alone at home with our daughter Delaney (born within a year of getting married) and then son nearly 3 years later.  She wanted to home school which I support so again this left her isolated from contact with most other adults at home a majority of the time.  Up until a couple of years ago I began to see the toll it was taking on her, especially since she does not have any other well established friendships.  I stopped a side business last year.  I recognize my need for words of affirmation was being filled at the work place (not my wife's love language her's is quality time and gifts).  I have pursued my own desires in my career development, social engagement, spending on things like a massive sci-fi collection.  I have not put her first every day.  I have not lived sacrificially as Christ has for the church.
  3. I have spoken to TOO MANY people.  I am realizing this is for my own selfish reassurance.  I should know by now Christ is the ultimate reassurance.  Unfortunately now the damage is done.  All I can do is limit speaking about any further details and simply leave it to others to pray for me, that I be the best husband and father I can be.
  4. Looney you asked what do think it means to love your wife.  You mentioned it earlier and I agree, to love as Christ loves the church.  That is a tall order but that is what is in the Bible.  To live a sacrificial life.  I have not done that.  I have lived for myself FIRST. That is why I am hear so earnestly seeking that I may die to my self and really be there as a man for my wife and family.
 
MaryJane you brought up some good questions as well...
  1. Was our entire relationship platonic up to marriage? Sadly no.  I chose to sin and unfortunately did not remain strong or really seeking intense accountability.  I now look back and see how that affected our maturity as she had that background herself (living with boyfriends).
  2. My wife became a Christian in her 20s when she was living with her boyfriend.  We met when she was 30.  She found Christ through her Dad who became a pastor later in life.
  3. We have pursued God together since we met, going to church, Bible study and early on had surrounded ourselves by other Christian brothers and sisters.  
This is a good start, but I know you ladies will have more insights as I can get this stuff out.  I hope you see I really am making an effort here, I must say it is harder than I thought to dig up all this.  Just for context other books/resources I have read or are using include:
  1. The Love Dare
  2. Marriage Builder - Larry Crabb
  3. A Lasting Promise
  4. Marriage Without Regrets - Kay Arthur
  5. Before the Last Resort - George Kenworthy
  6. Avoiding the Greener Grass Syndrome - Nancy Andrews
  7. Love Must Be Tough - Dobson
  8. Oops! I Forgot My Wife - Doyle Roth
  9. If Only He Knew: Understanding Your Wife - Gary Smalley
  10. Grace Filled Marriage: The Missing Piece. The Place to Start - Tim Kimmel
  11. Discovering the Mind of a Woman - Ken Nair
  12. Rejoice Marriage Ministries
  13. Family Life Today
This morning was a good morning overall.  I was able to make breakfast for her (breakfast burritos), put on some holiday music for the kids.  She made juice for me as well.  I was able to leave home on a good note so I am thankful for that.  I appreciate all of your input thus far.  It really shows how much you care for the hurting and marriage in particular.  I thank God for you!


#13 Looney_Tunes

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:56 PM

Looney you asked what do think it means to love your wife.  You mentioned it earlier and I agree, to love as Christ loves the church.

 

 

Agreed. But once again, that's a pretty generic statement. What does it look like for your wife?

 

When I ask guys how Christ loved the church, most go immediately to the fact that He died for us. Yeah, OK, He did. But before He ever hung on that cross, He did a lot of other things. For starters, He left heaven and went through the birth process in a barn. Do you think that might have been a little uncomfortable? And yet I'll have guys tell me that they'd take a bullet for their wife, but they won't give up the Sunday game to take her shopping if that's what she needs. There are a million more examples I can think of, but you get my drift.

 

So what does being loved look like for your wife? You said that her love languages are time and gifts. Those are easy to fix. Start by sitting down with her for 10-15 minutes per day and just listening to her. Buy her a gift on the same day every week - nothing expensive, but put some thought into it. Doing it on the same day every week is important, because anticipation is half the fun.

 

Make sure she has an opportunity to get some alone time when she needs it. I homeschooled all 5 of my kids too, and trust me, sometimes she needs a break. Do you know enough about the curriculum she's using and where your kids are to take over for her occasionally? If you don't, why not? They're your kids too, and she shouldn't have to bear all of the responsibility for their education.

 

Start with those things, and then keep finding ways to love her. Stop with the "talks" and the unspoken attitude. You are not her judge, jury, or parent. You are her husband. Love her.



#14 ChooseLove

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:31 PM

Thanks Looney. She likes quality time together, watching a movie, particularly older ones like Fred Astaire.  She is very much into history and politics/news.  She probably watches/listens to 2-3 hours of Glen Beck programming a day and likes to discuss/post anything related to that.  I believe engaging her on those topics and listening to her on that would show her love. I have not been as good at the gifts aspects of things I do know she loves chocolate so I can never go wrong there. :)  We enjoy a good restaurant and going out to eat together.  

 

I have made it a priority to give her alone time.  Usually when I get home in the evenings I will watch the kids so she can have an hour or so to herself.  Also on weekends I will watch the kids so she can spend at least half a day getting out to do her own thing.  I know that since she is an introvert as well she needs her alone time.  

 

I do know I could benefit from being more romantically minded.  I have not made her feel treasured or as important as she should be.  I have stopped with the talks and just working on loving her where she is at like you have said.  I will leave the judging to God and do my best to show that and not any attitude of superiority.  Thanks again for your input.  I like the idea of a small gift each week.  Anticipation is a great thing.  



#15 ChooseLove

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:39 PM

Good morning friends.  Just wanted to say I am thankful for you.  God is pushing me past my hurts and now helping me to see how I can be more Christlike.  I am in the middle of reading Ken Nair's book on Discovering the Mind of a Woman.  It is very helpful to me and I can see that I just need to love my wife where she is.  

 

I have reached out to some Christian woman that know Nikki and asked them to pray about reaching out to her - being her friend.  I know I can't change her and me speaking to her sin at this point is not where I need to be.  I accept that the divorce may come, yet I will continue to love her without expecting anything in return.  I am working on ways I can best show her love that comes from Christ our Lord.  I just wanted to take a moment and thank you all who have shared thus far. 

 

Last night I was able to cry with her and tell her I was sorry for the hurts I caused her.  She cried and too and gave me a hug.  We have been reading Ecclesiastes as a family and that book is really convicting us both.  At least for me it has convicted me on my self righteousness.  

 

I got inspired today to buy her a Christmas gift from the kids.  I am praying about other ways I can show her love through gifts.  She showed me some kindness herself as I was not feeling well and she brought me pizza and water in bed.  I later came downstairs and watched TV with her and the kids.  Overall it was a good day as far as the last few months have gone.  I am thankful.  I continue to pray for this amazing ministry and the way God is working through you all.  Thank you for your faithfulness unto the Lord. 



#16 ChooseLove

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:19 AM

Hi all,

 

Checking back in briefly.  I would welcome your input particularly as my wife continues the affair with the other man who is across the country.  It is obviously hard to see his number on our phone bill as she continues to call him and be in touch.  Please let me know if I should say anything at all.  I am really trying to love her where she is at, but this is very difficult.  Thank you for all your support.



#17 Rebuilding Trust

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hi,

 

Let me just say - Choose Love my brother - the Agape kind of love! :)

 

NO, absolutely do not say anything to her about the continuing affair and stop looking at the phone bill! This is not about her, it is about you laying down your life and becoming a Christlike Man - period!

 

You said in an earlier post that you understood that you just need to love your wife where she is at and that you should have no expectations of her. That decision isn't just a one and done decision, you have to continue to make that decision everyday (this is where dying to self come in). God tells us to take up His cross daily and follow Him. Each day we have to choose to pick up that cross and carry it, that is our choice, He does not force us.

 

Please read through my thread. I warn you that this process is not easy, in fact it can be darn right excruciating at times. But I can promise you that if you walk this out, you will not regret it. In fact, if God came down to me today and told me he could take me back in time to before my wife left me, I would have to tell Him no. You see, God causes ALL things to work together for good to those who will follow Him (paraphrased). For me you see, it took me loosing everything to wake up. I know now that nothing else would have made me see the reality of the person I had become. 

 

I am a different person today. My relationship with my wife is blossoming again and my relationships with my children, other family members, my church, my work and even strangers is now more than I could have ever imagined......

 

So "ChooseLove" my brother - I choose to "Rebuild Trust" - lol.........



#18 ChooseLove

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Rebuilding Trust! Yes you are so right it is a choice everyday and it has and will continue to be tough work I know, but I am committed as a follower of Jesus Christ. The Men's call last night was helpful as well. I will continue to update this forum on my progress. Have a blessed day and thanks for the continued feedback.

#19 ChooseLove

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:50 PM

Hi all,

 

I am just getting started her so I don't want to jump the gun, but there is another marriage ministry that has a 3-day intensive near me in California. I wanted to get feedback from you all on this -http://www.savemymarriage.com/ from A New Beginning (Family Dynamics Institute).  I am working on myself, doing a lot of reading and just got Joel and Kathy's books and DVD following-up with the conference call.  The workshop is at the end of January so I have a few more weeks left to register. I am praying about it as I work on being more Christlike myself.  Please let me know of your thoughts regarding this particular ministry.  Thank you all for your guidance on this.

 



#20 MaryJane

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:55 AM

I don't see where they say what they believe is God's plan for marriage.  You would want to find that out first. 

 

I think it's rare to find a ministry that teaches that the husband is the head of the wife, ie. source of life and source of strength (emotionally, of course).  There are not many that point out the husband is the initiator in marriage, the wife the responder.  Whether he is initiating positive or negative.

 

I don't think there are many that teach the wife should NOT submit to emotional or any other abuse.  That she should set up consequences for that.

 

Before you consider registering, please read Joel and Kathy's two foundational books. 

 

All the best.







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